Head Shepherd
Mark Ferguson from neXtgen Agri brings you the latest in livestock, genetics, innovation and technology. We focus on sheep and beef farming in Australia and New Zealand, and the people doing great things in those industries. To learn more about neXtgen Agri, visit www.nextgenagri.com.
Head Shepherd
What is an estimated breeding value?
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Breeding values are something we discuss a lot here at neXtgen Agri. We decided to do a podcast episode explaining exactly what they are and how they are ‘built’.
Today, Daniel Brown, Principal Scientist at Animal Genetics and Breeding Unit (AGBU), joins us to discuss what breeding values are, how they are developed, their role, the impact of genomics and the future of genetic evaluation.
Mark and Daniel begin with the basics of breeding values and the benefits of genomic testing. “Breeders record pedigree and performance information for a range of traits. A breeding value amalgamates all that performance information on an animal - and its relatives - for a range of traits, into an estimated genetic merit,” explains Daniel. “It’s essentially taking individual performance data and amalgamating it through the pedigree and adjusting for things like environmental effects … to get the best estimate we can of an animal's genetic merit.”
Daniel explains that as more and more producers utilise genomics, the reference population is getting considerably larger, which opens up the opportunity for breeders to get fairly accurate breeding values for young animals from just a DNA sample. Genomics also gives you the ability to see which genes were inherited from which parent. It’s often assumed that both humans and animals inherit 50% from each parent, but this isn’t true.
“The genomic information gives us a much more accurate measure of the relationship. Unlike the standard assumption, that you get half your genes from mum and dad, it actually varies from … 25 to 60 … it might change between individuals. So it gives us the ability to estimate relationships much more accurately,” Daniel explains.
Mark and Daniel discuss both the history of breeding values and also the future. The field of genetic evaluation is constantly evolving, with the potential for changes in genotyping methods and the inclusion of new traits. With more data, comes more answers - we just need to find them, says Daniel.
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Genetics and Animal Breeding Value Analysis
Speaker 1Welcome Daniel Brown to Head Shepard .
Speaker 2Thanks , mark , it's a pleasure to be here .
Speaker 1It feels like it's been a long time coming . Your name's been on the ASADA board for a fair while . It's good we finally got the time organised . It's hard to get schedules to line up , but great to have you here . You're a Principal Scientist there at Agboo and you're rounding out a quarter of a century almost there at Agboo or involved in genetic evaluation .
Speaker 2That's right . Yes , it's just gone over 25 years , so it's a long time . I've really enjoyed the evolution of the last 25 years and what we've achieved with industry together . It's been awesome .
Speaker 1Cool . So we might start with a couple of I'll just get to know you questions , I suppose . But yeah , I guess in your terms what do you do and why do you love what you do ?
Speaker 2Yeah , well , essentially my role has always been around delivery of Australian sheep breeding values for sheep genetics , so I have been involved in the routine estimation of those breeding values and the development behind the analysis and making it better . So , yeah , essentially the way I see myself is just helping breeders make genetic improvement for the things that are important to them and I think if I've had to think about the things that the reasons I enjoy that the most , I think it would be in a unique role of delivering tools or solutions to breeders to help them make more progress , and I think a part of that is breeders and industry collecting a lot of data which we get to analyze and sort of produce evidence-based advice for producers on the day-to-day collect and working directly with producers has been really awesome and we're privileged we get to work directly with a range of collaborators , both researchers , industry people as well as some very smart switched-on breeders that are very passionate about what they do , and just working with them in a collaborative manner has been awesome .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I guess over the years it's yeah , like lots of data from all over the place really is headed to you guys there in Arbital . So yeah , it's been the central hub of analysis for a whole heap of stuff everywhere , which is pretty cool and , yeah , we'll get to it . But yeah , it's been a . It's amazing how much it has changed in 25 years , which I think we underestimate a fair bit . But we'll get to that . You're the test crash dummy for our question , which is going to be on every episode from now on , which is what is the last thing you change your mind about , which hopefully is going to be something we keep asking people .
Speaker 2But I did give you a bit of notice to answer that question because I think it would be a tough one to answer off the cuff . You're right . It surprised me a bit to think of a good example of . You know . I asked my family and they said it's very hard for me to change my mind , but I did think of something . So I'm glad you gave me some notice . But something that I've come to appreciate , both professionally and personally , is the value of time , and I think since I've gone over 50 and getting a bit older , I think I've changed the way I value time and things used to , you know , I felt like I had heaps of time to achieve stuff professionally and also personally , and more and more so I find myself shorter time and as a result , I think I value time differently and I sort of think about where I spend my time differently now , and I've really changed my perspective on the value of time .
Speaker 1Cool , that's excellent . And if we keep getting answers like that , I'll keep asking of time . Cool , that's excellent . And if we keep getting answers like that , I'll keep asking the question . It's a good one , and I think we all need to learn the power of saying no and manage . It's easy to say yes to everything and then end up missing out on stuff that's actually important to you . So , yeah , I can definitely align with with that answer .
Speaker 1Lots of people out there well , we've got some people who would know as much about an ebv as as you do , but most of our listeners are probably um , aren't that well skilled , but we , we all try and battle our way through understanding an estimated breeding value . But , yeah , I guess it's really . It'd be great to hear in layman's terms how , how an estimated breeding value , or asbva australian sheep breeding value in australia is generated for an animal um , and I was keen to hear that through three different lenses . Firstly , pre-genomics so we've had genomics for you tell me how long , but more than 10 years . And secondly , currently , with the sort of single step incorporating genomics , which which I think some people probably misunderstand , how that works . And then maybe finally , a bit of a prediction whether that's likely to change in the future , or we've sort of got it pretty well sorted .
Speaker 2Yeah , so I'll try and step through that and remember all that . But I guess you know , to start from the basics , you know breeders record pedigree and performance information for a range of traits and essentially a breeding value just amalgamates all that performance information on an animal as relatives for a range of traits into an estimated genetic merit for all the traits that we've got in the analysis . So essentially , taking individual performance data and amalgamating it through the pedigree and adjusting for things like environmental effects and what have you , to get the best estimate we can of an animal's genetic merit . And I think you know , over time pedigrees and performance data , phenotypes have always been critical to that and always will be , I think . And I think that a challenge for some larger sheep breeders has always been to get pedigree and you know genomics has helped with that as well as estimating better breeding values . So I think about over probably it's always been to get pedigree and genomics has helped with that as well as estimating better breeding values .
Speaker 2So I think about over probably 15 years ago we actually started incorporating genomic information , so DNA information , directly into the evaluation and that has been a game changer and really helped for a range of reasons and we've seen a large amount of benefit just from people using genomics for pedigree , especially in merinos , and that's really changed the ability to make progress in merinos .
Speaker 2But also now , because we've been using genomics for a long time , we've got a large reference population and now quite accurate breeding values early in life through a DNA sample . And that depends on what trait we're talking about . But some traits are quite hard to measure traits and we've got extensive reference populations in research flocks and that's now giving us essentially genomic relationships throughout our population so that animals that are related to those reference populations get essentially more accurate breeding values early in life as soon as they've got a DNA sample . So that's really changed our ability to make genetic progress in all breeds and particularly for hard toasure traits , I think . So the key bit about genomics , I think , is really that it fills in the relationships between animals much more than what a sparse pedigree does , and that gives us the power to estimate breeding values for a whole range of traits more accurately .
Speaker 1Yeah , I guess I mean , in addition to that , it also picks up how much not just who it's related to , but how much of DNA it got from those relatives as well , because obviously past one generation there's a different proportion of genes you pick up from various grandparents , et cetera .
Speaker 2That's right . That's a good point . Which I didn't say , mark , is that you know the genomic information gives us a much more accurate relationship measure of the relationship , unlike the standard assumption you get half your genes from mum and dad . It actually varies from , say , extreme 25 to 60 or something it might change between individuals . So it gives us the ability to estimate relationships much more accurately .
Speaker 1Cool . So I guess when you ask and this is going to be hard to do in layman's terms , but in terms of that analysis that's obviously you feed all of somehow you're putting all the DNA , I'm sorry , all the genotype information , so that's 50,000 bits of information on each individual , and then you're putting , whether that animal's got whatever phenotype it's got , it's in the analysis , and then pedigree and any contemporary grouping , any genotype information about which been running in the same environment , and that's all a big stats run that takes , I don't know , a week to run or a few days anyway yeah , it's getting quite big now because um we're getting close to 500 000 animals in the merino analysis , for example , with genotypes , and um you know we're over four million , approaching five million animals , I think , in that analysis with lots of traits recorded .
Speaker 2So it actually is getting quite big for us and um it's taking about five or six days to run now .
Speaker 2So we will need to do some research and development on that system and making sure that we can keep it sustainable in the long run .
Speaker 2And it's the same in land plan and we've got work underway at the moment to try and evolve those analyses to make them remain current and useful for producers and also be computationally possible , which is as genomics continues to grow and which it will . We'll see more genotypes be available , I think , on more animals and also greater density . So you mentioned 50K , which is essentially a very common platform , but I think what will happen ? We'll have even more markers per animal to deal with . So it's a constant evolution to keep the analysis capable of handling that and I think another part of it in the future will be you know more records on our traits measured on animals and you know very well the type of technology that's been investigated for a range of traits and I think through automated data capture and new ways of capturing phenotypes , we're just going to see more traits recorded on animals and that'll again grow the needs to evolve the evaluation as we go forward .
Speaker 1Yeah , so is that in terms of future ? We'll just see greater density , like similar . I guess it's hard to predict the future , but there's no complete change in the pipeline , it's mainly just incremental changes . Now .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think there could be a change in the way we do genotypes . I think the writing's already on the wall a bit . We might probably go away from the standard 50K SNP panels that we've been using a lot in recent years to genotypes by sequencing or other methods for faster genotyping or more efficient throughput to try and make it easier and quicker . So I can see that the way we get genotypes might change and I think also how we use it in the evaluation might need to change as well over time .
Speaker 1Yeah , so it's going to be well . All the predictions are true , which is no reason they won't be . The rate of change we see in the next 25 years will be a heap more than we saw in the last 25 years .
Speaker 2I think it will continue to grow with technology is my sort of feeling .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , Just hang on for the ride . I guess for my entire career and your entire career . We're sort of the science of modifying an animal's DNA through selection and changing the production potential of that animal . We know that Brady Bades work and that's as well . I guess . To us it's as rock solid as gravity . For other people it's probably maybe up for debate , but we've seen it time and time again how well they work on everything that's got DNA really Correct . I guess the area where you and I might disagree , or people around the industry will disagree , is how do we use that power ? I guess how you see in your mind what's the most appropriate use of that power , of a breeding value , and to bring it all together to improve the stock on the ground or improve production systems on the ground .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's a good question and there is lots of opinions on how best to use what we do , I guess .
Speaker 2But ultimately , the way I see it , from a breeder's perspective , there's generic variation in just about everything that we're interested in to some degree anyway , and I think what's really important and I always come back to this with myself is to really identify what's important to you and measure it and select on it , and I think breeding values can help us do that more accurately .
Speaker 2But I think with that we need to be doing it in a commercial environment that we want those sheep to produce to be as accurate as possible . So I think that you need to understand profit drivers and traits that influence sustainability of your business , record them well and use breeding values to help you select more accurately on them in a balanced way , and obviously that's balanced with a range of traits , but also other things that mightn't be actually directly affecting profit now , and also visual traits . So I think balanced selection is the key for your commercial production system and you need to find if you're a commercial grower , you need to find a breeder that's going to deliver you that information so you can actually identify the right breeding values to suit your production system .
Advancements in Sheep Breeding Technology
Speaker 2It sounds easy , but it's often quite complicated , and I think that , unfortunately , the breeding objective that we're dealing with is going to get more complicated , whether we like it or not , and that's where the power of tools and technology will help us , and I think another key part I think I know that we've spoke about this lots over the years is that people like yourself and your team actually helping producers , both commercial and breeders use the system and get the most out of the system is quite important and it'll become more important , I think , going forward .
Speaker 1Yeah , no , I think you're right . The balance is the important part , and it is yeah , it's easy to say . It's probably the most overused word in sheep breeding , because it means different things to different people , but I think the older I get , the better I am at understanding that different people have different objectives , and that's fine . In fact , that's kind of a good thing , because it keeps it interesting and it probably keeps genetic variation out there that we might want to utilise one day as well , correct ?
Speaker 2yeah .
Speaker 1Just on that yeah , you're coming around at getting more complex and getting more intense and more data , and that I mean both . I mean probably for the pair of us . The excites us and scares the hell out of us , because it just means it's more difficult , but it also means we'll find new things that we've never experienced before , and that'll be good . I've been told by a few breeders that I'm banned from coming up with new traits , but most of those breeders then come up with their own anyway , so it's not really .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's not always one side of that problem , but I guess it's . Yeah , it's easy to look around us and think , oh , I wish we knew more , I wish we had more information , there's new traits , we want to understand other things . But looking back , the last 20 years has seen an enormous shift in knowledge and tools for breeding and we started here . But you give us a quick cook's tour of the last sort of 20 years in terms of traits . That when you started out in 25 years ago kind of the tonic traits and analysis we were doing compared to what , what we've got now it's actually .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's quite interesting when you reflect on where we've , where we've come from and I think you , as a result of the sort of development we've done in the evaluation and linking it to all other things in industry , we've actually changed the way that these tools are used as an industry quite a lot . And I think you know developing the analysis is only useful if people are going to use it , and there's lots of examples that I can think of where we've worked together with industry and made improvement . And obviously genomics has been a game changer and will continue to be . But I think we've also done a lot with just the standard production traits and evolving when we capture things . You know some people recording a lot earlier now and some are recording lifetime profitability more so that's been a key change that we've been able to work together on . But we've also developed a range of new traits . Eating quality is a key one for us and we've seen an evolution of both eating quality traits and them being important in industry and in objectives and generally just carcass traits , I guess .
Speaker 2I think another key one in my mind is reproduction .
Speaker 2We've done a good job to improve reproduction , but with breeders doing a better job of recording it and actually delivering breeding values .
Speaker 2As you know very well , they were pretty scarce in some breeds a while ago and now it's more common to have breeding values for reproduction and those other traits that go with it , like composition and maternal behavior score , now than they're not .
Speaker 2But I guess another key thing that we've worked hard on is a range of easy care traits and I know when we started Wrinkle , for example , which was the first one we focused on , there wasn't a lot of industry data . Now it's everywhere and it's awesome to see , and there's a heap of traits like that color dags foot rot , as you will know very well , shedding and lambing ease all these traits . We've been refining and getting better adoption , both in terms of people recording it and using it in the industry , and I think there's going to be other future traits , like you know methane and feed efficiency and things that we need to deal with in the same manner . But you know the whole way it's been collaborative and producers have been helping us collect the data , understand the trait and deliver new breeding values and objectives , and I think that you know , working together on a common goal at the industry level has been awesome and it's credit to the breeders and the industry for supporting that to happen in a sensible way .
Speaker 1Yeah , you're right , it's always been a chicken and the egg . So if there wasn't demand then we wouldn't have breeders involved , and if we didn't have breeders then we can't get the data . If we don't have the data , we can't build the architecture , and it has to have gone kind of around together , and that's been . It hasn't always been well , it's never been a straight line and probably for most of us it's gone slower than we would like in terms of uptake at industry level . But I think we're in a really good place now and I feel like the kind of pendulum has swung to the momentum , to a much more data-rich industry , which is awesome , and that's only go one way now .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think the evidence now from the surveys that have been done on our industry users which is the most important bit if the tools aren't being used , then there'd be no point is there and the evidence is that more people are using the tools . Everyone uses them in different ways , but I think clearly more people are using the tools to make better selection decisions , which is great .
Speaker 1Yeah , and it's good to see that they haven't got two heads and five legs or anything yet . And that's what I really like about where we're at now is that we can put just as much selection pressure on what constitution , trade structure , whatever you want to call them those trades are all heritable and we'll get better at making sure we're scoring the right things to make genetic gain on those things . And I guess the important thing , and the most probably exciting thing over the last five , ten years anyway , is that all of those things that we kind of breed as a shroom are all genetic , like feet and stuff are actually just as big chunk of environmental fixed effects on those traits or maybe not fixed effects , but definitely environmental changes what we see and what we measure . So we can be culling an animal for one trait in one environment where we think it's awesome for that trait in another environment , and so I think we've got a lot to yeah . As that unravels over the next few years , it's going pretty exciting as well around the structures yeah .
Speaker 2so we've still got a long way to go . I you know I see challenges all the time with some of these difficult traits like um , foot rot's a good one , but also just things like fleece rot and fly strike resistance . You know we're sharing genes all over the country and between countries now and you know that brings lots of good things but it brings lots of challenges and that's opportunity , I guess . But you know I see lots of opportunity for us to be improving , you know , our accuracy of our breeding values and doing that with industry so that those outcomes are a bit more predictable , but of our breeding values and doing that with industry so that those outcomes are a bit more predictable .
Speaker 1But you know there's definitely challenges and I think you know , with breeders , we're managing to work through them as we can . Yeah , yeah , it was . Oh , henry , just put something on the WhatsApp group . Yeah , on Friday , the Izetta Breeders' Place and it pulled some news out that had been fly struck and they averaged 0.3 higher for their DAG reading barrier than the ones that hadn't . So that kind of stuff just really lights you up in terms of , like , what we can , actually the power this will have once it's deployed fully , for taking labor out of the industry and , yeah , basically make it a more happy , profitable place to be because of some of these trades that 15 years ago weren't there for sure , even probably five years , some of them .
Speaker 2So that's right yeah the um .
Speaker 1I don't know if you can remember your PhD I've struggled with mine but a quarter of a century ago or more than that now , you were working in fiber diameter variation in sheep with your PhD . I have read some of those papers . I just can't remember them . Is there anything that sits there that you wish the industry was doing more of , or has that all sort of hit its mark ?
Speaker 2Yeah , it is a bit of a struggle . It was a long time ago , but I do have a book on the shelf . Every now and then I open up .
Exploring Animal Genetics and Traits
Speaker 2I do reflect on those times quite often and we've actually got a student , erin Smith , doing a bit of work on some of the data on fiber diameter profiles that we've collected out of the resource flock on CRC , which is great to see , and she's looking at some interesting new aspects which stimulated my memory a little bit .
Speaker 2But I was particularly interested at the time on fiber diameter profiles and understanding the variation between animals and how animals reacted differently to the environment and how that affected bull quality .
Speaker 2But one part of my PhD I was actually measuring other things on the animals and I measured things like skin thickness , composition and body weight and looked at how that changed in relation to fiberrogynous throughout the year and it always interested me how different animals responded to the same environmental conditions and how . I was on a small data set for a PhD but I was amazed by how different animals were petitioning resources to different sinks within the body and I know that we've both of us have been involved in projects looking at some of these aspects over recent years . But I think that difference in how animals petition their resources between those sinks is important and I think there's a lot of opportunity for us to understand that better and work at how we use that to breed more profitable and resilient animals going into the future , especially with the challenge that we face in the future . And I think there's been some work , but not enough to really capture that understanding and make use of it .
Speaker 1Yeah , I couldn't agree more . Obviously , it's definitely a hymn sheet I don't mind singing from , but yeah , I think CV in itself is a really interesting trade , but but , yeah , that whole , we've got lots to lots to learn , which is the exciting part really , um , and of what's going on at the physiology level to make sure we can we're making the right decisions when we're , when we're selecting animals , and I think , yeah , it's , yeah , there's lots to do . Unfortunately , it's all pretty bloody expensive most of it to do to do . It's large scale and hard to do at a scale that well do it the intensity you need to to get the answers , but also to reflect the industry , having the variation captured and all that sort of stuff .
Speaker 2So it's not easy work .
Speaker 1Our colleagues in Tullow and Young in there , like chipping away and getting where we can , and there's some , yeah , I think . I guess I always think about it . If we look forward 20 years , we'll definitely we'll have had the answers by then . It's just a matter of time . But yeah , it's certainly an area of intrigue . I think Monsiva itself as a trade I think is one of the most interesting well , not just an interesting trade , because it is reflecting something that's going on about how animals are handling those changes to their environment , particularly nutrition , and it lines up with lots of traits , which is kind of always half-jackling , but almost say , if you only gave me one trait to select , it would be CV , almost because it's correlated with lots of stuff .
Speaker 2Yeah , it was interesting . Actually I came up this morning in conversation with a breeder , the relationship between fatness and CV and there is a distinct negative correlation there which is lower CV , higher fatness at the genetic level , and that in itself intrigued me a little bit why that exists and what value it actually offers . But yeah , that's the same with relationships with lots of other traits . But it is an interesting trait . But I think that the other bit to which interests me is also that with the future traits of safe feed , efficiency and methane to put over top of those other traits we're already looking at , it all becomes very complex , hard to measure traits everywhere we look , and and complex . So it is a bit , um , a bit of a challenge for us going forward , I think , is to select and write things in a in a way that we can actually sensibly achieve . So it'll be plenty of interesting times ahead for us , I think , and , uh , we'll be for sure it was interesting for us ?
Speaker 1I think , yeah , it will be . For sure it was interesting . I had a look quickly at the database and there's obviously not that many strong wool sheep measured for micro and CV . But the correlation was there and I can't remember what breed that was . But it's not just a merino correlation . Anyway it was there in some strong wool animals which I found intriguing . But anyway , one day we'll understand it . Unfortunately , norm Adams passed away before I could learn enough from the man , but he had some theories on it . I know that for sure .
Speaker 2Yeah , interesting . There's a lot of old literature too which is hard to keep your mind across , but I think there's definitely opportunity . We're always time poor , but there's a massive amount of data in our database now , and you touched on that before . I think we're privileged with how many data we've got , but we just don't have enough resources to do all the analysis that we could do out of it . And you know it'd be awesome to see more students floating around and things like that , but there's not enough people .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , no , that's true and we talked about that with Alan Bell on a recent podcast . Yeah , you breed a few sheep and cattle at home Is a geneticist's flock like a mechanic's car .
Speaker 2Good question . Yeah , yeah , my brother's a mechanic so I know what it's like . But I try hard to make it not like that . But it is a bit of a struggle when we're on the road a lot and off-farm a lot . But I think I'm pretty proud of what we have been able to achieve .
Speaker 2We've got a fine wool merino flock at home and we've made some significant changes over the last 20 years and it's not a traditional New England flock at all . It's pretty productive , non-mules and last year I think we weaned about 125% of the lambs . So obviously that's just not genetics , it's management as well and we work hard to try and do the best we can on our small farm . But out of interest I can plot our genetic trend for the rams we've used over the last 15 years and tell you that we've been making about five index points per year consistently , which is I have to thank my ram breeder for that . But it has been good to do those sort of things .
Speaker 2I would like to do more individual animal recording but you know it's been a bit hit and miss so far . But you know we do try and do the best we can in the time we've got , which is I actually really enjoy that part of trying to apply the trade essentially and do the best we can . It really does connect you to the challenges of your user and makes you especially . In New England . You've got lots of challenges and you know there's always things to deal with .
Speaker 1Yeah , I guess it's not that different than your average commercial . Farmer's got a million things to do often and buying rams is only something they think about for half a day or a day a year . So yeah , I mean but equally they can put your mind to it you can do a bloody good job for that half a day or day a year to get the right rams coming in the gate . I'm sure you spend more time than that thinking about it .
Speaker 2I probably bias my time towards that rather than other things I should be doing .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's right , rather than fixing a pump or something . That's way less exciting . The final question , which is a bit off topic , sort of on topic , but I remember back in the day you used to breed a few rabbits . Was that all finished up or is that still chipping away ?
Speaker 2No , we wound that up a few years ago now but I think I can't remember exactly how long , but we were breeding rabbits for about 10 or 15 years . So that went through various forms . We were producing seed stock for the industry for quite a while and the whole time we were , you know , extensively performance recording and using burning values and a lot of AI to make genetic progress and it was actually a pretty awesome species to be working with litter sizes and short generation intervals , like it was really , you know , good to see the change you could make . But it became a bit challenging in the end as an industry to , especially when we were in partnership with a large producer and just commercially producing a large number of rabbits and keeping them alive without animals getting sick or having calicivirus and things like that causes problems to become too much and just had to wind it up . Unfortunately . It was a pretty sad day to see those rabbits go , but it was a really good experience and I learned a lot from the process and it was definitely a unique challenge .
Speaker 1Is there still a rabbit like a meat rabbit industry ? Is it still going ?
Speaker 2Last time I heard there was still a few producers around . There's been a couple of long-term producers still producing rabbits , but I can't say with any certainty actually now how big it is , but it's not very big yeah yeah yeah , it's a bit of a shame . It's actually quite a good industry and quite a healthy meat and quite a good conversion food conversion ratio . So it's quite a good system if you can get the production system set up right and keep the rabbits healthy .
Speaker 1Yeah , that has always been intriguing and I guess it just highlights how , yeah , it doesn't matter what you're doing , the tools are all the same . In our business , we're sort of working with everyone from 12 micro under shedding to cattle or whatever , and it's all the same really , like you're , all the principles are the same . There's lots of different traits and different considerations .
Speaker 2That's right , yeah .
Speaker 1But the principles remain .
Speaker 2We're still actively in . Like you know , if you look around at the conferences that we go to there's you know nearly everything's got . You know breeding values being used in some way , from aquaculture trees , all sorts of industries , you know . Everywhere you look there's evidence of you know using breeding values and now genomics to make genetic improvement and it's quite interesting comparing community industries . But , like you say , if it's got DNA then you can do it and even with the different types of DNA it's still possible . So it's pretty awesome .
Prioritizing Time and Genetic Evaluation Progress
Speaker 1Yeah , indeed , all right , daniel , you've got to prioritise your time based on your change , so we'll wrap it up there and let you go and do some work that you actually get paid for , but really appreciate your time and appreciate that 25 years of making our lives easy with getting that genetic evaluation better and better all the time and bringing better and better and better values to the people we get to work with , which , yeah , I think I'm really looking forward to the next well , however many years , but , yeah , as it gets better , the better it gets , the more power we get and the better it can go .
Speaker 2Awesome . Thanks , Mark , for your time . I really , really enjoyed having a chat and it's been great to reflect . It's always good to think about where we've come from and talk to like-minded people that are trying to help industry make progress . So thanks for your time and I enjoyed the podcast .
Speaker 1Thanks , mate .
