Career and Farming in South Australia

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to Head Shepherd Danielle , England .

Speaker 2 0:02

Thanks a lot , Mark . How are you today ?

Speaker 1 0:04

Going pretty well . I've got through a minus three frost and got a bit of blue sky out the window , so not too bad . I wonder why you live in Christchurch at this time of year , but anyway , that's good for the kids . So anyway , all is good . But yeah , this is- .

Speaker 2 0:20

Builds resilience . They say that's it Send them out in just bare feet or thongs .

Speaker 1 0:26

Yeah .

Speaker 2 0:26

Are they still calling them thongs or have they moved into the flip-flops ?

Speaker 1 0:30

No , they're jandals over here . Jandals , of course . Yeah , a whole new language to learn . They've got duvets and jandals and jerseys . Yeah , there's a few of them Chili bins , Chili bins yeah , yeah , yeah you're good , yeah , yeah , all good .

Speaker 1 0:47

But this is not about me or Christchurch , this is about you today . But yeah , so obviously farming with Jono there in southeast South Australia and family . But I guess , before we get into some questions , it'd just be good to get your sort of run through of your career to date First bumped into you in Western Australia and then , not long after I got there , you were in South Australia and I guess , yeah , any highlights along the career to date . Obviously you're only midway through the highlights that will be , but yeah , where you've got to so far .

Speaker 2 1:18

Yeah , thanks Fig . So I studied Bachelor of Agribusiness Marketing at Muresk in Northam . That at that time was a four-year degree and I did my honours on rural leadership and what makes a rural leader , especially in rural communities , so I guess that people focus inside Broadacre . Agriculture has stayed with me throughout my career . Jono and I got married soon after I finished uni so we were married in 99 and moved back to the family farm at Kalara between Kingston and Lucendale in the southeast . We were here for about eight years and we run Merino sheep . And then when our daughter was born we moved back west and Jono and I started working for the Department of Agriculture over there . Jono was a sheep advisor in Narrogin and I was working in the sustainability and NRM team before I moved across into Plan Farm where I was managing their projects and got involved in the grain and graze and the mixed farming side of things and led in that project led nationally a lot of the decision making and risk and how farmers look at risk and the role of sheep in broadacre farms in the cropping programs and what risk or risk mitigation do they play . Because one of the old adages is we've got sheep because it reduces the risk . But if we look at the size of the sheep enterprise , it is tiny often compared to the cropping and it's not there really for risk . It's probably there because it's something we like doing and that's okay . It's your business , guess what you can do what you like . So , which is why we see some changes generationally between sheep and other people who keep sheep in those mixed farming areas as a large proportion of the enterprise , even though it probably doesn't have to be , there are other bits , especially when you get to this side of Australia , that you can't crop , so they need to have a robust sheep enterprise sitting in amongst that . So there's some of the decisions that sit inside mixed farms that came out of my time with Grain and Graze and then back in about 2016-1717 , it was time to move back to the family farm and for Jono and I to grow up .

Speaker 2 3:48

We'd had a great time in the west um and obviously that's home for me , and so we've moved back to Kallara and I am you're sitting there with a nice minus three . I think we only probably we were going to get to three , but I think it might have got a bit lower . It's a bit chilly on my walk this morning . Yeah , sitting here waiting for , hopefully , the break of the season in about three days' time . So we are running about . Well , look , anzac Day is the average , isn't it , mark ? And we know when it's the average that we can have tails either side . So 2024 , we've got the four weeks the other side , hopefully .

Speaker 2 4:27

But what's making this season hard , both in the south-east in Australia and also in Western Australia , is we had a really short spring , so we absolutely have not had the ground cover or the bulk growing over spring like we normally would have , which means that everything just looks awful . So , even though we've got confinement going , all the ewes I haven't seen any ewes around in my travels that are looking really poor . Everyone's absolutely confident about the way they're managing their livestock and we know how we're managing our soils . It's just kind of like come on , we're ready . Now , let season 2024 begin , please . So that's where we're at . So how's that for a nutshell of my moving across the Nullarbor a few times and probably gives me good under . What I enjoy is looking at the systems that people have on their farm and the way they make it work , and it's not just about the farming system of the crop and the sheep , but also the people and the communities that sit in behind that , that make it work as well , and often I think we forget that in agriculture .

Speaker 1 5:35

Yeah , cool . And just drilling in a little bit further , I know your father-in-law don't know his dad was fairly innovative back in the day with his merino breeding . I assume that's well , I don't know . I don't know if his dad was fairly innovative back in the day with his merino breeding . I assume that's well . I don't know if that's still around or not . And also , did I see somewhere that you've got a daughter back on the farm or back involved or not ? Do I make that up ?

Speaker 2 5:54

So , george , our daughter , we have one child floats in and out depending on how motivated she gets . She's 18 and city life . She's at university this year and living university . Like you should always live university there's only one way to do that yeah , absolutely so .

Speaker 2 6:15

Jono and I are sitting back and reliving our university days . At this point . She yes , she's involved in the business . She's not studying agriculture , but look , let's see where the future takes her Cool . Jono's mum and dad are still actively involved in the family , so in the family business , so we've effectively got two and a half generations sitting here .

Speaker 2 6:35

Jono's dad , peter England , lives and breathes merino genetics , so that is his number one passion in life . Um , and jonathan is really there just to support some of the tech and give him a hand as as life goes through . So we're 100 percent merinos on our farm . We run the commercial side and pedra and margie still run the stud and we're probably running at about 17 micron , I think , in our ewe flock , which means that our lambs all get down to sort of that 15 micron . So they've just been shorn .

Speaker 2 7:14

And one of the good things we like with the merinos is that and we're running a multi-purpose , doing the multi-purpose index as well . One of the things this family likes is the fact that when we you know , spring last year , when all of a sudden prices dropped by 40% , we were able to say , okay , it was time to flip back in , to put the wool focus rather than meat focus into the business just for the next couple of seasons . But you can also keep adding that science in . So we mated for three weeks this year . That was Jono's attempt to reduce stock or lamb numbers without teasers , and it kind of bit him on the bum .

Speaker 1 8:01

I was going to say how'd that go ?

Speaker 2 8:03

Yeah , he's still got 86% of his normal mating of his normal lambs that have scanned through . So look , we're still running those numbers . Yeah , lambing down , sort of that . 2,500 ewes , yeah , cool . I'd like to say we're a 550 mil rainfall area , but that's probably back down to about 350 now . Yep .

Speaker 1 8:25

All bets are off on average rainfall .

Speaker 2 8:28

Oh , especially this year . I think yeah , yeah , yep .

Speaker 1 8:32

Yeah , cool .

Navigating Change in Agriculture Industry

Speaker 1 8:34

The question that we've been asking lately of all guests on the last few episodes but it's one that will stay there is what is the last thing you changed your mind about ?

Speaker 2 8:42

Oh , okay .

Speaker 1 8:45

That's the reaction I expect to get .

Speaker 2 8:47

I know , I know how do we admit we're wrong , how do we change ? So I've just recently hit 50 , which has been a nice thing , but also a bit of a oh . I have not have to , but I want to be a mentor . So that's probably been my biggest learning over the last six months is that I've moved from being someone who absorbs information and not to say you don't keep up with it . You always keep up with it . But just about how do we bring the next generation of aggies , whatever field they're in , be they researchers , farmers , extension officers how do we actually pass some of that 25 , 30 years of industry experience going on ? So that's probably my biggest learning and change over the last six months is being able to put myself in a position to mentor others , or to expect not to expect them to know everything , because they've only been in the industry three to five years .

Speaker 1 9:54

So yeah , so that's a pleasant thing to have changed my mind about excellent , and I don't know if it's been a conscious effort and by that answer I'm going to assume it was a conscious effort but it seems recently on . I mean , I only see what you write on LinkedIn , but it seems like there's been a conscious effort to provide some leadership to industry through written content as well , just particularly at the moment when we know that people are finding it hard for various reasons and being a source of strength out there .

Speaker 2 10:26

Thanks , ferg . And it's probably in that same six months I started to get frustrated about September , october last year September , yeah , there you go I'm just looking at the dates when the stock market crashed and I could not understand why , as an industry , we were tackling this in silos . So we just look and say , oh , it's because of the El Nino being announced , or it's just because of the turnoff of drought affected eastern Australia , it's just because , you know , we've got a poor spring . It's kind of like as farmers we don't deal with it in silos and we run a whole economy and it's a global economy in agriculture , and sometimes I think we forget that . And so that was when I started to pipe up and say , excuse me , we're running a like in a global industry here . There are other things other than El Nino affecting prices , which actually affects decision making on farm . So , and then flow through , you know we .

Speaker 2 11:31

So it wasn't just El Nino , it was the fact too that the federal government had announced , within that same two weeks , the review of the live export , you know , so that all of a sudden put shivers through our export market partners . So how do you expect them to react other than hang on , we're just pulling up stops here and we're not going to invest in the Australian sheep industry because we don't know what the government's going to do and Labor's had this effect in the past , so let's work on their previous track record . But I think , as researchers and scientists and funders , we throw out information in silos instead of just actually having a look at the broader view of what's going on . And then , obviously , with the recent announcement which has come on top of what is really a shit season , let's be honest , there's just so much heartbreak out there and I just think that this is where you put the people back into the business , like let's not just look at the season or the markets or the animal welfare , let's look at the people welfare as well . And it probably surprised me , fig , when I started to put them all together and just have a look at the impact that some of these decisions and the season is having .

Speaker 2 12:52

Lucendale Field days down here . Zero dollars spent , you know , zero dollars . No new bikes , no new tractors , no new seed going in the ground for renovated pastures , farmland that 12 months ago wouldn't be on the market for 10 days . No bid , no offer , okay . So that has flow-on effects through our regional economies , let alone those people who are , you know , for the sake of a land sale , who are wanting to move on . They've made a huge decision in their life and they kind of can't . So it's all these things that actually flow through from what is just , you know , potentially 5% of a market , and these are the impacts people have .

Speaker 2 13:40

So , yes , I'm probably getting a little , and I have always said that I'm not sure that live export would be there for the long run . And the Australian industry in the last 10 years has made a massive improvement in terms of animal welfare and shoring up those markets . And sometimes I think we just put our pale , stale , male white person's head on and think that everybody should eat meat the same way we do and forget that we're actually a really small player in what is a global industry . So there's my Danny's economics 101 for you , feck , excellent . But I am seeing the impact on the people and that is the that's the hard bit , yeah who have invested generations in really good genetics , really good farming systems and , as I said , those sheep are still in really good nick , the country's still in really good nick , they're doing everything that the community is asking of them and yet where's that market ? And it's not just live market , it's everything market .

Speaker 1 14:50

Yeah , no very good points . The change is something that is inevitable . It's constant , but humans don't necessarily love it . The reason for the previous question was really that to change behaviour , you have to change beliefs , and I think that's the hardest thing . We need to get our head around what is . We need to believe that something different can occur , otherwise we won't have the practice in place . What are your tips for people implementing change in a farming business , to sort of how you go about that , which can be scary at times ?

Speaker 2 15:20

Yeah , and often in things like this it's a forced change as well . So if we look at the change and in my career , ferg , over the last 30 years years I've seen us go from working back paddocks two and three times with scarifiers so I had the pleasure of using scarifiers back in the day and disc plows , which are now coming back in to no-till . You know so . But if we look at that change in our farming system , that was driven by water use and economics and that was driven by us as farmers , whereas this change is very much being driven by the outside person and the market . And it is technically only a small portion of the market . As I said before , it's only sort of 5% or 10% of the market . That is export . It's what it's done to the confidence of the rest of the industry . That is the hard bit to get ourselves

Building Business Resilience in Agriculture

Speaker 2 16:22

around . So , in terms of change , I think , if you look at the Stock Journal and the Rural Press , we've just got to get ourselves through the next 12 months . No , no , no . I think this is a two-yearyear , three-year journey that the industry is going to have to take itself on it .

Speaker 2 16:39

It is a matter of matter of buck buckling in at this early stage and just seeing , because , as you know , we can't change sheep genetics very quickly . Sure , we can put some move out of merinos and move into first crosses or prime lambs , but they're not going to hit the ground till next year . So what's that 25 ? So we've 23 mating was decided sorry , 24 mating was decided in 23 . We don't operate in really short turnarounds in livestock .

Speaker 2 17:11

So tips for change is probably just really about knowing your core values , knowing what you're good at and being able to work your way through it . And often with change in farming , businesses comes from something's not working . So what do we need to do to change that ? And that's when we start to explore for other options . So we need to just be exploring at this stage and just keep an open mind about what the opportunities might present themselves or where they might go . Don't look back . We've got to keep looking forwards and focus forwards , because what you focus on is what you'll generate inside your business and your personal life yeah , I think .

Speaker 1 17:59

I mean , we've known forever that , given the right opportunities , farmers are very innovative and and we'll come up with solutions that no boardroom of anyone would have come up with . It's um , it's just being out there on the coalface . But I think it is that mindset element to being careful not just to stick to your guns at all costs , and that's why I start with that question what do you change your mind about ? Because I think it is important that we , over time , we continue to . We don't end up in echo chambers , which we're all at risk of being in , just following our confirmation biases and end up only hearing one story .

Speaker 2 18:34

Absolutely . And the reality is , too is we all socialise together and we all listen to the same podcast and we all follow each other on LinkedIn and social media . So , guess what ? We're all feeding into that same echo chamber . So sometimes it's about breaking out , and some of the best days I've actually had have been when I've taken myself off , for example , to a dairy conference , being in sheep , or I take myself off to a women in business conference that's got nothing to do with agriculture absolutely nothing at all . And they're the days where you go actually , this is good , I've picked up stuff that's got nothing to do with agriculture absolutely nothing at all , you know . And they're the days where you go actually , this is good , I've picked up stuff . It's not alone . So sometimes you've got to put yourself right out there and get involved in other people and other things to actually , yeah , work it out .

Speaker 1 19:27

Yeah , yeah , exactly . Resilience is something we talk a lot about . It gets mentioned in every .

Speaker 2 19:34

It's kind of almost , almost as bad , as sustainability was back 20 years ago resilience is is up there .

Speaker 1 19:40

It's talked about a lot . It's sort of sort of almost talked about like it's something we need to get and then you've got it . Uh , the reality is that it needs constant work to be maintained . There's always stuff eroding your resilience and therefore you need kind of methods to build that back up , because , I mean , there are yeah . There's always things wearing out .

Speaker 2 20:00

I just yeah , I just look at resilience as a journey and so , wherever we're at , we're just at , we're resilient . It's just sometimes we're feeling less than others . There's also an adage around , so resilience isn't just one thing , it's actually a big mixture of things . It's a mixture of your physical health . Are you living authentically , doing what you love ? Authentically doing what you love ? It's um , around the social connections you keep , it's around enjoying what you do , those sorts of things . So sometimes , oh , have you got enough rest in your day or in your week or in your year , um ? And so sometimes we might be at the minute .

Speaker 2 20:48

For example , we're feeding a whole lot and we're trying to get crops in the ground . So I don't know any farmer out there in Southern Australia and Western Australia who doesn't have bags under their eyes . These are 12 , 15 hour days at the minute and there's a lot of worry going on behind the scenes . So our resilient levels might be less in terms of the workload and being able to rest . But there's some things we can do to build our to build our just our general resilience levels back up , and that is things like eating healthy , staying in connection with people , so that you've at least got that social connection and then , after it breaks , hopefully this week , it's looking more positive rather than less positive .

Speaker 2 21:33

Once we get some of that rainfall come through and we can take some of that pressure off , then that allows us to sort of get some other stuff around living authentically and enjoying what we're doing back into balance . So I don't think it's something that we achieve and then we lose . I think it's just the ebb and the flow , a bit like the waves of the ocean coming through . They're always going to be coming through , and the old adage used to be , with resilience , that you won't be resilient and then you'll bounce back . Well , I think we've moved past that and I don't think the bounce back is there anymore . I think it's just that journey , because it might be sometimes , as you know , sick kids , sometimes it might be sick parents , sometimes it might be sheep markets , sometimes it's your health . All those things just add to our general overall resilience .

Speaker 1 22:28

Yeah , thank you . So if we switch that question to kind of business resilience and you started talking about , I guess , a mixed farming setup where sort of one of the things that diversification is meant to do is build resilience in your business , some people would argue whether it does or it doesn't .

Speaker 2 22:46

But I guess what are the key characteristics of resilient business as you see around , Someone said to me once that if your farm's still there , you've got a resilient business . Pretty good , and that's probably about right . Yeah , okay , we get very worried as farmers about , for example , the 23-24 financial year won't be probably a gangbuster financially , but do you know what it's ? One year in 10 . Farming is a long game and it's an infinite game . In other words , we try and set it up for future generations and to manage this land going forwards . So while it looks a little bit stressful now , in the long run it will actually be okay .

Speaker 2 23:40

Now , what you do around that in the short term , this season's going to be another one that's going to add to the bottom line of debt . So there's likely to be $100,000 to $200,000 . That just goes on to long-term debt for most farmers and that's okay . That's farming , that's the capital gain that you've probably seen over the last five years . That's the capital gain that you've probably seen over the last five years just slightly eroded , and that's all right too . Okay , most farmers have got great relationships with their bank managers or financing and I guess at the minute around the farming system or the farm business and the farm business resilience , it's just about staying open .

Speaker 2 24:32

Yeah , sure , we can change , but please don't change everything . Okay , inside the business there's an old rule of thumb that you don't add or subtract anything more than 30% in a business , because otherwise , to try and catch up with management , with the new skills , you need all that other stuff . So , for example , if we were to suddenly move out of Merinos into cattle when Merinos account for 70% of our income , that is not going to be a good move . Okay , if we're going to get into cattle , we would need to potentially just buy 200 cows or even 100 cows , just to get our head around it .

Speaker 2 25:15

So change needs to happen really slowly on ground , and I think that's part of that resilient business and I'm not seeing or hearing anyone wanting to make massive changes at the minute , which I think is good . I think that's really sensible to be actually sitting here letting 24 season play itself out and then potentially towards the end of the year , when we know what spring's going to do we've had another spring selling season . Let's look at what's going on . Let's look at how our processes have caught up , because at the minute they're not caught up . Let's look at how our processes have caught up , because at the minute they're not caught up , and just see what we want to do for mating and lambing 25 and then going forwards after that , absolutely . So the biggest pressure at the minute , I think , is the cash flow coming out of 23 , 24 for most businesses and that's okay . I would suggest that's really normal .

Speaker 1 26:11

Yeah , thank you . Most businesses and that's okay . I would suggest that's really normal . Yeah , thank you . Back earlier in this discussion we talked about you talked about rest briefly , and I know it's something that like right now , farmers are out there , they're . I mean , I've grown up seeing that it's the way I run my business . I don't , I don't get a lot of rest , uh , but every podcast I listen to just to let the listeners know , I got my email from Mark at 7.30 last night .

Speaker 2 26:34

So , mark , I'd suggest these tips might be for you too . You're right .

Speaker 1 26:38

Yeah , so yeah , certainly not in my glasshouse throwing stones , but it is something we're not good at , and I think whether you're anyone that's yeah , I guess , prides himself on a work ethic , thinks it rests the rest of the time , but clearly it isn't . I , yeah , I guess , prides himself on a work ethic , thinks it rests the rest of the

Strategies for Rest and Recovery

Speaker 1 26:54

time , but clearly it isn't . I guess , what are the tips , what are the small things that you can put into a day to ensure you get rest ? I know , for me it's been .

Speaker 1 26:58

I know exercise isn't rest , but it is really in terms of most of what I do is brain work , so turning the brain off and running or rowing or something . So that's been my hack for last year , which I'm continuing .

Speaker 2 27:10

Good , well done , spot on . So rest does not mean putting your feet up and reading a book . Rest can just be something that isn't your daily grind . So , and the reason we need that is we need to give our brain a rest from what we're doing and what we're thinking about in our daily life . So , be it , exercise , be it .

Speaker 2 27:35

We've got a cholera catch-up tonight and we've got fat farmers coming along who are running PT training sessions right across southern Australia . Getting together with people socially . It can be a wine appreciation club , it can be the gun club , it can be the footy club . All those things are vitally important for you as a person . I was on Kangaroo Island last week and somebody suggested gave all the farmers a bird book and said I want you to go out and identify two over the next week , two birds out of this book on your farm . That's rest , okay . So there is some strong uh research coming out of out of the farmers center for national center for farmer health around the impact of continuously working now and and staying in that burnout phase , and I would suggest that we're , as livestock producers , we're in that burnout phase and I would suggest that we're , as livestock producers , we're in that burnout phase right now , so it's a pretty pointy time . What that means is that we need to , as a business , is allocate time away from the business .

Speaker 2 28:50

Jono and I are really good . We've got involved in our local park run , which takes us out of . Every Saturday morning we go for a run . Neither of us are runners , but it gets us out . We don't talk about farming for an hour and off we go , just like Jono's a part of the sailing club . Here . All farmers don't talk about farming for an hour and off we go , just like Jono's a part of the sailing club . Here don't all farmers don't talk about farming , talk about sailing , and it's the same , I think , at footy clubs as well . So that is really vital . But just recognizing that I think the whole community is at the point of burnout now and that we might need to just tread carefully during 24 and make sure that we're getting some rest in when we can before we start harvest in November , december , yep .

Speaker 1 29:35

Yeah , get some time away , Get some time to give the brain a rest .

Speaker 2 29:38

Absolutely , and as a farmer's wife , I think I learnt very early on if you book an airline ticket , they have to come .

Speaker 1 29:45

That's right . They've already paid for it . They'd better turn up .

Speaker 2 29:49

Yeah , that's it . They hate wasting money , so they may as well turn up , right yeah .

Speaker 1 29:54

Yeah , that's a good option . I was going to go one way with this question , but I'll swing the other way . It used to be I thought it was the quote is you never want a serious crisis to go to waste ? It's been misquoted over the years and misgiven to other people , but it was actually one of Barack Obama's chief of staff that said it and it was about a global financial crisis , and the basics of that quote is that out of hard times , good things come and innovative things come . Are there opportunities right now that you think the businesses are just not seeing because they are in that burnout phase ?

Speaker 2 30:27

We need to recover first as an industry , and that's what I mean

Agricultural Industry Resilience and Growth

Speaker 2 30:32

. I think it's okay to give yourselves time for those opportunities to emerge . The positive one in me says there's only three days between a good decision and a bad decision , so sometimes those opportunities might only sit there for three days . There were some great opportunities last year with some of those cheaper lambs to turn them around , and so farmers some of my clients have used that and made money on that , but that's not often .

Speaker 2 30:59

I think what people can take out of this season , as I said before , is that we're doing everything right . So the science that's come to us in the last 20 years is now being put into practice and everything is looking really , really good . We're really set up . We just need to add water . So from that point of view , I think it's okay and it will be really interesting , I think , to watch how the industry grows and changes in the next two to three years to see what that crisis brings out . What I've seen is some really fantastic young . I call them young , but they're not young . It's only because I'm old .

Speaker 1 31:42

It depends what we call ourselves . Yeah , I know .

Speaker 2 31:45

Some really great consultants come through and provide the support , and I'm seeing some , you know , as a consultant as well .

Speaker 2 31:55

We have those chats with our clients to make sure that they're not only travelling financially okay , that the stock are travelling financially okay , but that the farmers are travelling okay .

Speaker 2 32:06

And in saying that some of the livestock consultants that the stock are traveling financially okay , but that the farmers are traveling okay , and in saying that some of the livestock consultants at the minute are also at the point of burnout because and you want to be there to support your clients , but there's only so much you can do and only so many extra hours in the day you can work .

Speaker 2 32:23

So I think that's probably the whole industry's at that point of change now and I think you will see us as an industry step up into that next level and I see a lot of ownership being taken and a lot of vocalising what we're doing and how we're doing it and why we're doing it . And , as I said , it's just great that the science is there to back us up and the farming community loves science . They really do so it's really yeah . So what the change will look like and what will come out of this crisis , mark , I'm sorry , I'm not prepared to say but I don't actually know , I don't actually know , but I don't actually know , I don't actually know .

Speaker 1 33:05

But I just have confidence in , in the way we're going and it's a really good point that we are way better off than , like I mean , 30 I don't know what the number is , but a number of years ago we would have had lots of sheep out in their paddocks still basically ruining soils and all like the 83 or 82 dust storm that blacked out Melbourne was through tillage mainly , but equivalents in livestock , where we would have just had them in paddocks and trying to feed them out there or whatever , whereas there's a lot of good things in containment and all of the knowledge of what the energy requirements of animal are and how to meet that . And yeah , we've come a long ways in the industry and it's also very important that even in these times , that we do stop and look up and smell the roses and pat ourselves off on the back of the good things that have happened , rather than just focus on the things that aren't going as well as we planned .

Speaker 2 33:55

Absolutely . And we know , like talking about focusing forwards , we know that we've got our pastures set up , ready to go once the break comes . We know we've got fodder crops in the ground and you mentioned about your folks in cropping set up ready to go once the break comes . We know we've got fodder crops in the ground and you know mentioned about your folks in cropping there's a lot of subsoil moisture just waiting for that top bit to come through . You know All that science is absolutely sitting there and the good farmers are using it .

Speaker 1 34:19

Yeah , and we're miles better off than we've ever been before . So , yeah , I think it's definitely not an ideal season from lots and lots of different fronts . But , yeah , the we've seen these things before and we'll see them again , unfortunately , and yeah , and that's right .

Speaker 2 34:35

Yep , and that's the resilience of the business and the people is that ? Yep , it's just another season off we go . This is what season 24 is throwing at us today . Yep .

Speaker 1 34:46

Yep , yeah , exactly , danny . Thanks very much for coming on today . People can find you at AgInnovate if they Google AgInnovate or they find you on LinkedIn and read what you're writing about . But we'll put links to your website on the show notes as well if people want to get in touch . But , yeah , really appreciate your time and wise words . For those people out there who will be sitting on a tractor , hopefully by the time they're listening to this , hopefully it's rained and they'll be watching some sub-clover germinate .

Speaker 2 35:14

Yeah , that would be good , wouldn't it ? Okay , I think this is the year for perennials , because the perennials are just holding on in southern Australia . Yeah , and the confinement means we're not eating them . So life and times , Greg . Life and times .

Speaker 1 35:28

Yeah , excellent Thanks , hugh , and say good day to Jono and yeah , look forward to catching up in person , hopefully at Lamex or somewhere similar .

Speaker 2 35:34

Sounds great , all right , have a great day , thanks .

Speaker 1 35:36

Jenny .