Head Shepherd
Mark Ferguson from neXtgen Agri brings you the latest in livestock, genetics, innovation and technology. We focus on sheep and beef farming in Australia and New Zealand, and the people doing great things in those industries. To learn more about neXtgen Agri, visit www.nextgenagri.com.
Head Shepherd
Sheep, Salt and Beer with David Thompson of Moojepin Foods
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This week we have David Thompson of Moojepin Foods on the podcast. David talks about his career breeding trait-leading Merinos, how he is addressing salinity issues in Western Australia with the exploration of saltbush and halophyte agriculture, along with his latest idea: saltbush beer! David has to be one of the most innovative and enthusiastic people in Agriculture. Tune in for an absolutely fantastic episode.
- The evolution of Merino sheep breeding
- Challenges and innovations in mutton production
- Exploring saltbush and halophyte agriculture
- Navigating the culinary world with chefs
- Innovations in beer and gin production
Head Shepherd is brought to you by neXtgen Agri International Limited.
We help livestock farmers get the most out of the genetics they farm with. Get in touch with us if you would like to hear more about how we can help you do what you do best: info@nextgenagri.com.
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Innovations in Sheep Breeding and Agriculture
Speaker 1Welcome to the Head Shepherd podcast . I'm your host , mark Ferguson , ceo here at NextGen Agri International , where we help livestock managers get the best out of their stock . Before we get started , thank you to our two fantastic sponsors for continuing to sponsor this podcast . Msd Animal Health is perhaps better known as Cooper's Animal Health in Australia and for their Allflex range across the world with a comprehensive suite of animal health and management products . Heinegger is a one-stop shop for wool harvesting and animal fibre removal . The Heinegger team have a deep understanding of livestock agriculture , backed by Swiss engineering and a family business dedicated to manufacturing the best . We are grateful to our sponsors for their support , helping us bring Head Shepherd to you each week , and now it's time to get on with this week's episode . Welcome back to Head Shepherd . This week we have David Thompson on the show , which is a cracking episode .
Speaker 2before we get into that , uh , sophie , you've written an article for this week yeah , so I recently came across a paper a while back by Paul Kenyon and co talking about how many terminals we use versus maternals , and that in New Zealand we underuse terminals quite significantly and so we're not really utilizing terminals as much as we should . So there's a little calculator that we've shared that you can work out how many use you can put to a terminal RAM rather than just sort of a guesstimate . But yeah , just sort of trying to open some eyes that we can actually use more terminals is quite surprising .
Speaker 1Great . Yeah , we've seen a fair few terminals used around the place and we certainly recommend and it's great to get those b-mob used to a terminal so you're not having to worry about them killing their replacements . And there's a lot more , always a lot more growth in the system by using a terminal rather than maybe going for a higher maternal weight . You one person who does breed maternals is david thompson . It's great to have him on the show . He , uh , will have a crack at anything , as you're about to hear , and I've known Dave for a long time , good friend of mine and great to have him on the show . Finally , it was actually a recommendation from Dwayne Duxon , or a requirement for him to come on the show that we had Dave Thompson on , which we've had Hamish's son on before . So great to hear from Dave this week .
Speaker 1Welcome to Head Shepherd , david Thompson . Thanks , ferg . Thanks for the invite . Great , ferg , thanks for thanks for the invite . Great to have you along , mate . And yeah , we could talk all sorts of things with you , from sheep breeding through to eating saltbush , and we'll probably cover a bit of that , both those territories . Obviously , we might just start with the merino stud that you obviously started back in the day and hamish has , uh , grabbed with both hands more lately . Obviously you're still involved , but , um , yeah , maybe just talk us through the , I guess the bit of the change you made made since you sort of started through to what the sheep look like today .
Speaker 3Yeah , started in 1992 , hit a massive brick wall in 94 where the shearing team wouldn't come and shear the sheep because they were too tough Body strike . I remember , in April of that year , dead ewes with lambs and thinking we cannot do this anymore . So I've turned into a bit of like a reformed smoker . Well , rita , we just have to say righto , we got rid of 80% of the sheep in 95 , changed direction , went to plain-bodied sheep and , I suppose , reinvented ourselves then . And then our first sale in 98 . And , yeah , it really , it really , really really changed the direction .
Speaker 3And then , uh , 1998 we were invited to go into the marina validation project was the predecessor to sheep genetics and so we've been , yeah , part of sheep genetics right from the very start . So that was probably the . The biggest step forward for us is the tools available on that and , uh , yeah , uh , working with you back in the early 2000s on growth , muscle and fat as their three pillars , uh , plus staple in , staple in for us . But that's really what we've built our type of sheep around . I mean , I always say that if I had to choose one , one breeding value would be would be fat , genetic fat would be fat , genetic fat would be the one that I would always pick as the best or the most valuable trait , if I had to only have one that's what I'd take .
Speaker 1Yeah , fair enough . And I remember when we first met , I was actually doing my PhD over there in WA and I was looking for a . I had made news and I was looking for a ram that had a heap of growth , a merino ram that had a heap of growth and carcass . And I think it was probably about a month after this or a couple of months after this and after your ram saw anyway , and obviously there was no rams about . But I did a bit of a search and Mergeman came to the top . So that's how we went and said g'day , and obviously we've had a heap to do with each other since then and yeah , it was interesting .
Speaker 3I remember it well . I remember it well .
Speaker 1Yes , yeah , and I mean then we started , yeah , 2009 , when you bought the new farm . We obviously 2008 , 2009 . And we did that first sort of work which sort of went into feed efficiency work and some of the first stuff around methane that Tom Owen and we were doing the shed down in Medina . There's been , yeah it's been a long history of chipping away together .
Speaker 3Yeah , and also , like you know , just with Ulam joining since 2010 with Murdoch . We've been doing that every year since then , so it's been a good collaboration , I think , with yourself and Murdoch and stuff over the years , because it's good to work with those sort of people to advance the industry as much as we can .
Speaker 1There's one thing you'll never be short of , dave , and that's ideas . Well , I reckon we should explore a fair few of them . We might start with , like the long-fed mutton type of stuff or the long-aged mutton . Sorry , obviously , covid probably dealt it a bit of a blow , but you did at least prove that there was a market demand for mutton , if you got the product right and the marketing right .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think if you bred it well and you fed it well and then you killed it well and hung it well , it tasted great , and that was what we wanted to prove that if you actually had like for dry-aging age , you might you need to have fat cover on the on the carcass , but not , not too much . So , uh , when did we start that ? 2013 , I think we started that into into restaurants in perth . Unfortunately , it uh it did die mate not not for covid , it was . The butcher went broke and we had two big customers that never paid their bill . So we really hit the wall pretty hard , but we did prove that the product was really good and , look , we'd love to do it to get going again , if we can actually , yeah , if I have enough time . Soon , my wife says I'm not allowed to have any more ideas .
Speaker 1I reckon she said that 15 years ago , mate . That didn't stop her .
Speaker 3No , no , no , it didn't . I often get like a wake-up in the middle of the night and say , geez , I've got this idea , and then she rolls over and says , go back to sleep . But anyway , yeah , so the meat stuff , that's sort of that's how we morphed into . The saltbush was . We were supplying restaurants in Perth and a chef said look , I need some saltbush and we're getting it from the eastern states and it's not salty , so can you supply some ? So that's really how we got into that , and that was in 2015 . So we've been picking just about every week since then saltbush . And then it led to what else grows on the salt flats on our farm in particular , but in WA and so I just went off and started eating stuff on the flats and lost all my hair .
Speaker 1So that's how we started . Nice to meet you .
Speaker 3That was really the start of our saline agriculture business , so that was 2015 .
Speaker 1Yeah , before we we'll bolt in there , but if we just stick on the dry-aged mutton . So that was , how long were they hung for and what was the ? Yeah , I guess .
Speaker 3So , look , we worked a bit with Robin Jacobs he was at Deepwood at the time and we did work with the University of Melbourne as well . So there was not much difference between we did 21 days , but there was a very little difference between 14 and 21 . The big problem with 21 is you had a lot more wastage , so you lost about 23% , I think , of product through shrinkage . So we were doing 21 , but in reality I think 14 was a better spot because we were paying for a cool room space , a dollar a body a day , so it was costing there , yeah , but it did show you how good the product was . Man it was good .
Speaker 1Man it was good yeah , and was it sold in , like the restaurants were using it in the traditional where they would use lamb , or was it in a different sort of method ? No , it didn't .
Speaker 3It was really . I mean , if we could have a sheep with three heads , it would have been great because we could sell necks , like no , tomorrow we could sell shoulders , like yeah , couldn't sell legs , legs just could not sell legs . So the legs are about three and a half kilos . Uh , too big . Uh , apart from the indian restaurants , I want them , but they only wanted to pay four or five dollars a kilo . But uh , so we had , you know might have 60 or 70 legs hanging around . What do you do with them ?
Speaker 3So we did try to take , take cuts out of there , take the knuckle out , the top side out , but it was just a hard sell which farmers found really weird , because you know , we always have a leg roast , but it was the shoulder because it was a lot more marbling on the shoulder than any other cut , but as long as they cooked it really slowly , so they'd be cooking it for 40 hours like sous vide and it was just amazing , absolutely amazing . And I do remember we did sell a 10-year-old ewe for $300 and we thought that was bloody magic , until we went up and had a feed and it cost us $282 to eat the bloody thing . So it was amazing , but you know it was . You would never say to another farmer oh , we killed a 10-year-old ewe and had it , but this was a top restaurant having a 10-year-old ewe 3 , but this was a top restaurant having a 10-year-old ewe . 3,000 days pasture-grazed ewe . That is on the plate , magnificent , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1And I love that concept of , yeah , a number of days on grass or whatever , like this , yeah , I mean , I think that , yeah , it's a different language you have .
Speaker 3That's the thing . It's decommoditising the industry , you know , as opposed to selling sheep to an abattoir , or wool to the trade or grain , you're actually dealing with the customer and if they don't like it , they'll let you know , and if they do like it , they also let you know . So it was a really quick turnaround of don't want one of those or get more of those please .
Speaker 1So quite interesting yeah , and I guess that was your start of a journey where you weren't happy to sit out in front of a restaurant . You wanted to get out in the kitchen and see what was going on and a conversation with chefs , and that must be I mean , that would have to be one of the more rewarding parts of that , absolutely .
Speaker 3Yeah , going into the kitchens and talking with those people , it really opens your eyes because , I mean , they're at the coalface with consumers and it really is quite a yeah , not an enlightening conversation . It's a different conversation because they're really time poor . You can't faff about , you can't be . You've really got to get to the point . And as one chef said to me , he said the story will open the door , but if the product's no good , the door will shut . So the last thing you want to do is over-promote and under-deliver , because you will just be cut off .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , interesting . So we'll get into the salt stuff , but maybe just explain for those people that don't live in Australia or WA where salt like the salinity problem , in Australia or WA where salt like the salinity problem .
Speaker 3Just explain why it is where it is what's happening . Well , I suppose the Wheatbelt of WA is probably the epicentre of dry land salinity in the world . So there's about 24 million hectares in the Wheatbelt 1955 , than when we used to do the farm census , so farmers used to write in how much salt was there . It's around 72,000 hectares in 1955 . 2022 , there's now 1.72 million hectares . So we're losing around 15,000 to 20,000 hectares a year .
Speaker 3I'll think of the maths right . It's about four square metres a second over the last 70 years and it is a massive , massive problem .
Salt-Tolerant Plant Farming Success
Speaker 3So WA has the oldest soils in the world , so the most weathered , lowest fertility , but the most soil through rainfall . So I mean , rainfall is not pure , it's got salt in it . So you've got about 10 to 15 kilos of salt per year in rainfall per hectare .
Speaker 3And once in our situation in WA WA , when you clear the bush , the water table will rise and it has risen and with it it brings the salt and it's a slow kill . It's a really slow kill . So people didn't realise what we were doing back in the day clearing land . But it's a consequence of European farming methods . Sure , we've made a lot of money in the state we're a wealthy state , but this is one of the major costs , and there's been billions of dollars spent trying to fix it , and our view was well , you know , we've got this problem of too much water in the driest state on the driest continent . It's just that it's salty . So let's grow plants that actually use that water .
Speaker 1So that's really where we sit . Yeah , and then , as you said , you basically walked around chewing on stuff and tried to avoid any of the 1080 carrying plants and have now , I guess , found products that and , yeah , maybe just talk us through where or the sort of products you're selling and where they're going . What's happening ?
Speaker 3Yeah , well , they're all halophytes . So a halophyte is a plant that thrives in salt , so it'll draw up salt , concentrate it in their leaves and then they will drop those leaves when they mature . So our idea is to , okay , draw up the salt , then harvest those leaves before they mature . So our idea is to , okay , drop the salt , then harvest those leaves before they drop it . So it's really trying to harvest the salt in a leaf form and send it off for a profit . So that's it .
Speaker 3But not every halophyte's the same , so you can't go and put old man saltbush on the valley floor . It will die , not because of the salt , but because it's been waterlogged . So you've got to be careful where you select those plants , where you put those plants , sorry . So saltbush was the first , and I remember I used to start about half past four in the morning , go off and pick my saltbush and then do the day's work and then pick some at night and then deliver to Perth . But we then had a customer in Perth who ended up becoming my business partner . So then , 2017 , mugement Foods was formed . So that took a bit of pressure off me . So I don't have to do any dealing with restaurants or wholesalers , I just have to deal with production . So Lance McLeod is my business partner . I just have to deal with production .
Speaker 3So Lance McLeod is my business partner , so he deals everything . Post-picking is his role , so he would come up with ideas of you know , how about we try this , how about we try that ? So there's two of us actually having to have a crack on what we can grow . So really it is , as long as it's a halophyte and tastes good , we'll have a crack . So it doesn't matter where in the world it comes from . So as long as it's a halophyte and tastes good , we'll have a crack . So it doesn't matter where in the world it comes from . So we grow quite a lot of ice plants . Ice plants actually declared weed in Western Australia , but that's a really good plant for us to grow . Any main ones are like old man , saltbush , samphire ice plants , cocala , sea purslane and other smaller ones , but they're probably our main ones . And , yeah , we can't keep up . Can't keep up with the demand , which is a good thing .
Speaker 1But it can be stressful . Okay , and so now you've got a couple of pickers that are picking full-time or part-time , and that's . Is it mainly the main trade into the east , or are you selling a bit locally ?
Speaker 3We're selling a bit locally . Yeah , we have , look , we've got three employees , so two full-time , so Sweety and her mum , and they pick four days a week , so it's not full-time but near enough full-time . And then Jaco , he sort of helps me in the greenhouse , so he's two days a week and so it's all manual . It's all quite tricky to get volume when you're picking by hand . It's hard yards , but they're bloody good , they're seriously good workers and good company and never complain . So we're very happy to have them on board .
Speaker 3But what else are we going to say ? What else are we going to say oh yeah , well , we've got , say , in 2019 , 2018 , 2019 , we got a federal grant , smart Farming Partnership grant , so that enabled us to build two hydroponic greenhouses plus put in a saltwater bore to grow these plants inside . So that was a major shift for us was to actually be able to control quality , fertilise the plants and make it easier to pick , because instead of being on the ground , they're actually a metre off the ground . So that was a big shift as far as consistency in supply and quality .
Challenges in Growing Unique Crops
Speaker 1And I'm imagining you can't just Google the sort of the agronomy of an ice plant , like there's obviously a whole heap of trial and error in terms of what you fertilise it with and when you fertilise it and what's the like . You're basically starting from ground zero in agriculture .
Speaker 3There are absolutely no one to talk to , like no one . Yeah , so we did have a guy helping us who was a flower grower in the Swan Valley . So he helped us set up all the pumping and the fertiliser and all that sort of stuff . But we never knew how much to put on and whether it was right or whatever . So it's just been trial and error . So some things just didn't work .
Speaker 3So we've got one under plastic greenhouse where some plants really go well and others don't grow . But you know you lose a lot of plants when they don't work . And also you know we had one ice plant that we thought was an absolute craggerjack so we grew shitloads of it . Then we couldn't sell it . It's just . You know it's okay for us if we like it , but the chef said no , no , I don't want it . So we had about 10 grand for that sort of stuff we just had to throw out . But you don't realise that until you've actually spent all the money , put them all in and then you go to pick it and nobody wants it . So that's hard , that's hard . But probably our biggest challenge is because most of the stuff is used as a garnish . So if we can actually get it from a garnish two to five grams to a side dish 20 grams . Huge difference , huge difference yeah .
Speaker 1So most of it is just sprinkled on or chucked in a salad or something as a bit of a .
Speaker 3Well , people often ask like you just asked you know what people do with it . I'm not a chef man , right ?
Speaker 1You just don't care , as long as they buy it .
Speaker 3That's right , that's right , that's right . But things like I mean I , I , I mean samphire is an amazing , amazing plant and the good thing about it , it is an international plant . So you can actually buy it in the supermarket in singapore , you can buy the supermarket in american , you can buy it supermarket in in europe , but you can't buy in a supermarket in australia . I mean , my bloody farming neighbors have never even put it in their mouths . They said I don't think you can eat this stuff , but it's an amazing plant and you know there's lots of stuff you can do with it . In America they call it sea asparagus . So wherever you can use asparagus , you can use this .
Speaker 3So it's the one that we probably have the most demand for , but it is the most difficult one to grow . So I think we're the either the biggest or second biggest samphire grower in australia , but we're not very big but tiny . But , uh , in the middle of winter , we're the only ones that can grow in the middle of winter . No one else seems to be able to do it . So that's , that's been good , um , but uh , yeah , it's , uh , it's uh , yeah , it can be very , very frustrating when you've got you know , if we could sell 100 kilos a week and you've only got 30 , who gets it ?
Speaker 3Who gets ?
Speaker 2a 30? .
Speaker 3It's really quite difficult , really quite difficult .
Speaker 1And when the chefs knock you back on your ice plate or whatever , is that just taste profile that is different to what they wanted , or they just don't know ?
Speaker 3It just doesn't fit into what they're doing . And that's the other challenge with dealing with chefs is they like to change the menu so you might be on the menu ? I do remember quite vividly the best restaurant in Australia , which is Key Restaurant in Sydney . We just won a national award with our red carkella and Pete Gilmorean . He said , oh look , I'd like to have this on the menu for the next 10 weeks . Can you supply ? I said , yeah , no worries , pete , no problem , no problem .
Speaker 3You know , we got back here and the wingless grasshoppers had been through and just about every single gargoyle leaf had a brown spot at the end of it , and it was the most stressful period of my life , I think , trying to supply . You know it wasn't a huge amount . It might only have been 10 kilos a week , but we had to pick about 50 kilos a week to get 10 good kilos . And I was , yeah , never , ever did that again , never did that again . So , and that's what we also , you know , we went from it was actually thanks to Pete Gilmore , because we did contact him and say , look , can you give us a name of you know good wholesalers that we can actually deal with , as opposed to trying to deal with 15 or 16 chefs .
Speaker 3We can deal with one wholesaler . Firstly , we get paid and we don't have to worry about delivery to individual restaurants across Sydney . So that was probably our biggest advancement was moving to wholesalers as opposed to . I mean we still do some restaurants , but generally in Sydney . We have two big wholesalers in Sydney one in Brisbane , one in Melbourne and one in Perth and one in Mug River , so they're the main ones . We have two big wholesalers in Sydney , one in Brisbane , one in Melbourne and one in Perth and one in McRiver . So they're the main ones we have .
Speaker 1Yeah , I know , and obviously you're a fair way from Sydney , so it's obviously a bit of a car drive to Perth and on a plane to Sydney , is it ?
Speaker 3Welcome to my world , ferg . Welcome to my world . Dealing with trucking companies , it can be a nightmare . I mean , COVID was probably the biggest challenge . We had like to actually get stuff to Sydney because of when WI was in lockdown or the rest of the country was in lockdown .
Speaker 3We had to go from , I remember , perth to Darwin , darwin to Brisbane , brisbane to Sydney , and you could be kicked off the plane at any one of those spots . So it was a freaking nightmare . So anyway , we were well looked after by two providors in Sydney . You know they were very good to us , our wholesaler . But yeah , it's like we picked today . It'll be on the truck at about 2 o'clock , it'll be at the airport tomorrow morning and it'll be in city by 2 o'clock tomorrow . So that's really what happens and we've just got to make sure that we get it on the truck . So if the truck's not running , it can be a real problem . So I'll end up having to drive halfway to Perth and Lance will have to drive halfway meet up . But that's only happened maybe two or three times a year , but it's not great , but that's what we've got to do .
Speaker 1So it's yeah , the logistics are difficult in getting it there , but that's yeah part of it , indeed , and just because you hadn't done enough , you decided to make some Moodjman beer this year . How did that come about ?
Speaker 3Well , I thought that I thought Bush beer would be pretty good and we'd been around to see a few brewers and yeah , no , no , no , you can't do that , you can't do that , you can't do that . Anyway , I ended up talking to Nigel down at Lucky Bay Brewing at Esperance , and he said , yeah , yeah , we can do that , no problem , no problem . So we had a big launch , a food lunch down at Albany in May and I said look , can we get it done ? Yeah , yeah . So you know , racing around .
Speaker 3So I had to get we supply all the wheat and all the . It was 100 kilos of wheat , 130 kilos of barley and two kilos of dried saltbush . So that's what we started with . And I said to Nigel I said you know what if it tastes like shit ? And he said no , no , it'll be right , it'll be right . And he rang me up about 10 days in . He said oh , it tastes like shit . So it was just too bitter . So it was just too bitter , it was just too much saltbush . And I remember him saying you've got to be really careful with botanicals that you don't overdo it . And so we did Not , we , they did it . So they faffed about and got it sorted and it's a galba . So we just ordered our second batch , so that will be done later this year , so I think it's a good beer like it , don't you think ?
Speaker 1Yeah , no , it's not too bad at all . I think you're doing well . I've drank a pallet of it so far , but it's good .
Speaker 3Well , yeah , well , we've actually got 111 cartons and I said to Nigel that I think we've got 65 left and I had to count . There's only 32 cartons left , so I don't know whether we've got really quite a few . I've only visited once . Yeah , ken Dux has been here though . True , but we do have it for sale at Niving , so they've gone through about 10 cartons there and we've got into Katanning Country Club and a restaurant in Perth , so it's slow going , but it's good . All the feedback's been really good , really really good . So good , but yeah , and the gin , we've got a gin as well , but the beer's a big thing .
Speaker 1All right , what's next , mate ? Yeah , I'll tell you , right-o , we'll just wait . We'll just keep an eye on the website . I'm thinking back in 92 , when you were starting in Marino Star . This wasn't how you were thinking farming was going to go .
Speaker 3No , no , no , not at all , not at all , but isn't that the good thing about it , though ?
Speaker 3that's a great thing about what we do , you know , um , but I think it's always been have your eyes open and just uh and just look , just look , look around and see um , and I mean I , I love breeding sheep . I mean I absolutely love it . I think it's the great thing about , you know , burning sheep . I mean I absolutely love it . I think it's the great thing about burning sheep there's never a finish point , never a finish point .
Exploring Biofuel Production From Halophytes
Speaker 3But the salt stuff , you know it's such a big problem we've got and all the effort that's gone into trying to drain land and all that sort of stuff . I mean it hasn't fixed the problem and the problem is still here . So let's look at it a different way . I mean it hasn't fixed the problem and the problem is still here . So let's look at it a different way . I mean , talk about my new idea . I mean to do it overnight . I mean we're working , of course you've got a new idea , I know .
Speaker 3That's given .
Speaker 3I'm a bit doughy today but we had a feature on the ABC last year on it and I got contacted by a researcher at the King Abdullah University in Saudi Arabia and she called me up and they've been doing quite a bit of work with salicornia , which is sandfire , but it's just they call it that there for oil extraction for cooking a lot . So she's actually moved to Newcastle Uni so she's going to be over here in a couple of months . So it got me thinking about biofuel production . So that's what I think . I mean , it's all very well having food , but to solve the problem we need hundreds of thousands of hectares to be farmed , and the biofuel , I think , is something that could really push that . So if we could actually have a farming cooperative that grows our own fuel , we can have , you know , carbon neutral grain then , not just for us but as a state . So we've also got University of Queensland on board to try and help us work our way forward there , trying to get some private investment to kickstart it .
Speaker 3So we don't know what the hell the fight will be . It may not even be an edible one , it might be one that you can't eat but grows really quickly . So that , I think is something I'm pretty excited about if we can do it . I mean we've got masses of water , masses and masses of water and let's grow plants that can grow on it . So that's where we're up to at the minute . So we haven't got any money yet , but I reckon we'll keep having a crack . But it's just good to . It's really good to talk to these people from all over the world about some of the problems . I mean India's got a huge problem with salt . Canada , the whole world is getting more saline . So if we can uh utilize it for for the good , I think it'd be great really good .
Speaker 1Does it end up ameliorating like have you got salt bush growing ? Does it drop salt content like the exporting salt to sydney , one , five kilos at a time , or is that not how it works ?
Speaker 3yeah , yeah , well , I mean , that's what . That's what a halified does . And if you look at the valley floors here with , particularly with sand fire , you've got these old plants , but they drop their salt-concentrated leaves on the ground to stop any competition , so there's nothing growing around them . But if you look where roadwork's been done or where there's been an increase in organic matter , new plants come up all the time . So it is that You're actually exporting that salt . They store that salt and that's their mechanism to survive and I think , yeah , it's quite a clever concept as a plant , yeah , indeed . But yeah , I've got this idea of a hella fit of algae that they can double their size in three and a half hours . That's the sort of stuff I think we could really push for the biofuel Not that I'm into eating algae , but I think it'll be , but that's biofuel production out of or even farm , like even Omega-3s or whatever algae .
Speaker 3There's all sorts of stuff , yeah , that's right , that's right , and I think we can do like desal units and then use the brine to grow highly salt-tolerant halophytes in the brine . They've got desal units in Saudi Arabia and stuff where they're trying to grow plants in the brine , and I think we've got to do something with the brine . If you do desal , the problem is what do you do with the concentrate ? But if you can get a plant that'll grow on it , that would be worth having a crake out , wouldn't it ? Yeah , it would be .
Speaker 1I reckon there's only one word that is the worst thing they can say to you , and that's no , or you can't do it . What's where does that drive come from ? Do you remember a time where it wasn't there ? Or that's just been david thompson from day one uh , no , it's , it's , it's .
Speaker 3She thought about that . Uh , 1979 , I remember , uh , because my father , my father , he uh , he , uh . He came from scotland and I remember him complaining to Buggery about Merino sheep being terrible mothers and you know , we'd get 50% to 60% lambing and it was always the sheep's fault and I'd never sort of challenged him until then and I said I think it's your fault because you're not looking after them . And then he said , well , if you think you can do it , you do it . So when I finally came home , I ran the sheep and learned how to feed . I went and worked for another farmer , learned how to run sheep a lot better , and then I thought , well , what is possible ?
Speaker 3And then , listening to different people when things were falling off the rails in the early 90s , I remember I used to subscribe to the Farm Journal . I don't know if you remember the Farm Journal in the early 90s , I remember I used to subscribe to the Farm Journal I don't know if you remember the Farm Journal and there was a fair bit of Jim Watt stuff back in the day 93 . And I thought I'll have a crack at that and that's really how we started and I sort of got up the rung there a bit , became a class for the company and met a lot of different people around Australia and overseas and I suppose that instilled in me the confidence to maybe challenge tradition . I think tradition is probably the biggest anchor or impediment to innovation and the sheep industry , particularly the merino sheep industry , is probably the most traditional of all and I don't mind taking them on .
Speaker 3I think it's good to take them on , but as long as you take them on with facts and I think you know , going right back to you know with you and ASBBs and stuff , you know it actually does work . Yeah , and they've been so slow in actually embracing that whereas we were pretty early , you know , and I loved it when they said , oh no , they don't work . Well , they said , but they do ,
The Importance of Agricultural Education
Speaker 3you know . And then being told that you know we can't stop mules and sheep because they'll all die , I mean we stopped in 2004 and it would never go back . Never go back . So I love being told you can't do it . I love being told you must .
Speaker 3It's , one of the best things is to say oh , I still remember Tom Bull , you know , tom , but I think it was Best Wool , best Lamb . I think it was 2010, . And he said , well , you can't make reno , you lambs , but you can make composites . And I said , well , we're going to have a crack . And that's when we , in 2010 , we started and we had some pretty good results at the beginning , but now we're going really well and we've worked out how to do it and let's make it common practice . You know that sort of stuff , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1I like having Craig . There's nothing surer than that . I'm sure the family around there don't say things like you can't do that to you very often , because they would know what that means for them going forward .
Speaker 3Oh , there's a fair bit of eye rolling . I mean I can't show you behind you but I've got bloody little pockets of dried herbs and stuff that I've got going and I'll be off in here in the middle of the night , bloody , crushing up stuff and tasting and seeing what it's like . So there's a bit of that going on , but they're all terrible . They never throw anything out . That's because I'll get a bit cranky if they throw something out . That I've been working on for quite some time . But it is interesting . Like you know , I'll get like Pete Gilmore . He'll contact me and say what's new ? What's new ? You've got something new coming on , because they all want something new . So this is always trying to find something new . So we're trying to bring in some plants from Europe , some seeds , halifax , some oyster leaf , which would be good if we can get it to grow .
Speaker 3Sorry , I'm going over the place .
Speaker 1Have you made yourself crock , yet tasting random stuff in the paddock ?
Speaker 3No , I'm not going to admit that . No , I have spat out a lot . Yeah right , I remember there was a . I mean it still is there . I mean there's some sand fire that grows really well down the flat , but it tastes like kerosene absolutely dreadful . So you're just dead . But you don't know that until you put it in your mouth .
Speaker 1That sounds like the one for your biofuels mate . That sounds like it , that's right .
Speaker 3Well , it's funny you should say that , but I'm thinking that it could well be . It could well be , yeah , some biofuel , yeah , yeah . So anyway , it's always on the lookout for something new . What's over there ? Anything on the beaches in New Zealand ? Well , we grow new zealand spinach here , like warragul grains . Um , growing on the beach over there yeah , that's a bit .
Speaker 1I don't pay attention as closely as you'd like me to mate . You're welcome to come here and have a look , but I'm always looking .
Speaker 3I'm always looking like . Pre doing this , I didn't even know to use parasecuteers and now I've got bloody secateurs everywhere . So wherever I'm driving , anywhere I'll I'm going to have a snip and have a taste , so yeah yeah , good , this question's probably .
Speaker 1I don't know how you'd keep it to one answer , but the question we ask all guests is what's the last thing you change your mind about ? But I don't know if you ever keep it the same .
Speaker 3But yeah , last thing I changed my mind about retiring .
Speaker 1Are you really going to retire or are you going to retire ?
Speaker 3No , never , no , no . People ask me like you know you get past 60 , you know where are you going to retire , where and when , and while I'm productive , I don't want to retire . I mean there's too much to do , too much to do and there's lots to change , lots to change . And one thing I really like is working with young people . Like you know , we have the Murdoch students come once a year and we do quite a few bus tours and stuff now , and I just find it great to be talking to young people and also people outside of agriculture .
Speaker 3And I think we as an industry are really bad at selling our message .
Speaker 3And we used to do dinner with a farmer and I was a farmer and I remember we were doing one in Frio and a lady got up and she said oh , we love farmers , but we just don't know what you do . So I've always thought that well , we've got to tell people firstly what we do and why we do it . It takes more courage to ask questions of those people than beat our chest and say , well , the city people don't understand us . It's up to us as an industry to educate them and don't treat them as imbeciles because we haven't been good enough to explain what we do , because we haven't been good enough to explain what we do , and so we always invite people to come and take them around the farm and say this is what we do . It's not all beer and Skittles . But no one forces us to be farmers no one , no . But we've got to get better . We've got to get better at selling a message we really do Like it's . I think the biggest challenge facing us is the city-country divide .
Speaker 1Massive . Yeah , I guess , like you , I live in a city and I get to talk to the city people all the time . It's not a very big city , it's in New Zealand but yeah , I don't find anyone that doesn't like farmers . No , I find lots of people that have a lot of respect for people out there farming and I think , yeah , I think you're right , we just need to be . Yeah , there's lots of good things . We just need to make sure we continue to tell that story and I think anyone who listens to this podcast , david , can't help but be inspired . If you're a young person out there and came to , I mean , I they just throw caution to the wind and hook in . It's the right industry to do that , because there's lots of people kind of will , as you've sort of seen . You can find a lot of people that will support you when , if you get into different networks , you'll learn lots of stuff and you get challenged by different people and you know that you can go again .
Speaker 3Yeah , well , get outside your comfort zone and talk to people outside . It's all very easy to be insular and looking inwards and if you're not a farmer and you're talking to farmers , it can be dead set , boring , dead set , boring because you're so easily excluded . So I think we've got to be better at it . And you know , sure , there's a lot of shit that goes on , but we've got to own that too . And you know , if you're in livestock you've got dead stock . I mean , things happen and when you have a site , an animal dies and so we have to own it and be proud of what we do .
Speaker 3I think , anyway , and not fear , not fear the questions and I think that's one of the big things is the fear by people in agriculture being not understood by whether it's politicians or just the general public in general , about what we do , and they may bring up , make assumptions . So the best way to avoid that is to actually tell them , yeah , tell them all about it , yeah , and if every farmer or every , every , every farming business talk to five people or six people a year , make a big difference , I reckon , make a big difference . On , on , on , on on our perception . Yeah , yeah , good point .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , anyway , right , I might we better leave it there , but , um , it's always awesome to have a chat with you and it can't help but come up with new ideas anyone that listens to you for too long . So hopefully there's there's a couple hundred people , a couple hundred people out there that have decided to do something slightly different today because if they , if they aren't , they haven't listened properly .
Speaker 3I would say , no , it's been a pleasure and hopefully , uh , you can make some sense at all .
Sheep Shearing Equipment Sponsorship Acknowledgment
Speaker 1Thanks very much for your time , mate , and uh , yeah , all the best for AMSAIL .
Speaker 3Good thanks , mate Cheers .
Speaker 1Cheers , mate . Thanks again to Heinegger , who are proud world leaders in the manufacturing and supply of professional sheep shearing and clipping equipment . Thank you to MNSD Animal Health and Norflex Livestock Intelligence . They offer an extensive livestock product portfolio focused on animal health management , all backed up by exceptional service . We thank both of these companies for their ongoing support of the Head Shippet podcast .
